Shannon got me thinking this morning with her incredibly thought provoking blog on divorces. In a nutshell she said that many people don't divorce but rather stay in icky marriages and others think divorces should be done yearly! Read her blog it was really insightful whether you are married, divorced or never married yet like me!
It got me thinking and really I'm writing this blog because I want Shannon to tell me her thoughts on divorce in this aspect. Anyone elses comments are greatly appreciated as it is something that I have always found difficult to "sympathize" with (for lack of a better word).
My parents were married for 38 years when my mom passed away...today they would be married for almost 41. They were very happy together and although I never saw a lovey-dovey side to them, I have never seen a man so devistated when his wife passed away. My parents were never all about PDA. They always gave each other a kiss if we were going to Reno or if my mom and sister were leaving to come watch a soccer game. I am pretty sure that they had a healthy sex life because at one drs appt that i went to with my dad while my sister was with my mom at hers (they both had cancer at the same time at one point in this ordeal) the dr asked if my dad still got a hard on right as my mom walked in to which she answered yes he does! YUCK! Anyway...my father also cried very few times in my 25 years. He cried both times my mom had surgery here in Reno because there was a high risk of losing her both times during surgery and the morning she died. I can't even describe what watching him cry was like on the morning of her death. It was the most heart wrenching aspect of the whole morning for me because it was like his other half was gone and with her a part of him died. So I have no idea what divorce would be like.
Dave's family is very much different. Dave's parents were married and according to Dave his dad beat his mom. (I do not see this part of his dad today, no temper and such, but this is what dave said so this is what I go with...obviously his dad has made a change for the better) She divorced him and married Bruce, husband #2. Bruce, from what I see he does with the boys and how he treats Dave and his sister, is a good guy. He took on both of dave's moms kids (dave and kayla) like his own and both of them also call him dad. Provided well..all that stuff and she cheated on him. Mind you she divorced him and cheated on him with a guy that is her cousin by marriage or something bizzare like that. So now she is on husband #3, Fred. Fred is no good lasts no time and she marries husband #4, Darrell, the current husband. He is ok in our book but can be a pain in the ass. So with his mom alone, Dave has seen 3 divorces. Back to dad...he remarried and this woman took him for all he was worth. She ran up all the credit cards, took money out of the bank like it was going out of style, cheated on him numerous times and ended up divorcing him causing him to file bankrupcy. So there was divorce #2 for him and he has not married again or even dated to my knowledge.
To many families this is normal. It is what people do these days because divorce is no longer socially unacceptable to the majority of society. To me it is odd, not because I think they are bad for divorcing, but because it is something I have never experienced personally. Yes I have seen people who have been divorced, but that doesn't mean I can understand it fully.
Good lord this is getting long but again background is necessary for understanding. One can easily see why Dave was so reluctant to have a girlfriend, let alone get married. I tried everything to make him feel secure because he does NOT want to ever get divorced. He said he would never put children through that and he doesn't want it for himself. His sister is very much the same way. Just because of what he has seen, I dont know how he would act in a bad marriage. I'm not sure if he would be one of those that stayed just so he didn't have to get divorced or if he would be quick to divorce because he knows it so well. Anywhoo...I talked to him one day and asked him to share his real fears about marriage and stuff like that. In his mind, we could date forever and be perfect (well that's how it used to be, now it is different). As long as we were dating, there was nothing that could go wrong because dating isn't permenant or doens't have to be rather. Once you are married, it's all going to fall apart. That is honestly what he thought. There really is no chance in marriage because he has only seen divorce and he is sure that will happen to him too if it is an official marriage. He says this because Bruce was fantastic...he said there was no reason for his mom to cheat so he saw a normal marriage for like over 10 years and then their divorce came. He feels that if that marriage can fail, any marriage can, or will, fail. We have talked about this many times and I have reassured him that we can work through things if we are both willing to do so, that our problems are not their problems, and we are not them! We are different and we will work to avoid that if we truly want to make a marriage work. From my point of view it's the exact opposite. I see no chance of divorce because you just make a marriage work. My parent's marrige was never bad, they worked through everything and were always happy together. So therefore, just like Dave assumes divorce for himself, I assume marital bliss into the golden oldies for me.
I think Dave feels better about this aspect now because we have talked so many times about it, but I know it is still a fear he has. I never gave up on him when we were trying to date. I continued to persue him even when he tried so hard to push me away. Once we dated, I have done everything to make him feel secure and show him that I am not going to just abandon him for some other guy. The problem isn't so much with him as it is with me. You see in every divorce (minus his actual parents) he has witnessed, it has been the wife that betrays the husband and leaves him. The woman has always taken advantage of the man and in end just divorced him. So I felt like I had to do a lot of "proving" of myself to show him that I would just walk away at the drop of a hat.
What do you think about the topic of divorce for two people like us when one is so afraid of it and the other can't even imagine it?
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4 comments:
These divorce posts have been very interesting and though-provoking. Strange that they've come today since last night I had a dream that my husband wanted a divorce. Weird! (he doesn't want a divorce, just so you know).
But after all the divorce talk, I still can't get over the fact that the doctor asked your dad about his.... ahem... manly responses.
I think that if you can't imagine a divorce, and one of you is terrified of it, that you should just get married because you will live happily ever after and can just completely avoid the whole divorce thing all together.
When I met Erick he did not ever want to get married again because he was divorced and did not ever want to get divorced again. But eventually he realized that when you love someone enough, it is worth a leap of faith. He and I obviously do not ever plan on getting divorced. But I think that we both went into our marriage with a realistic view of how much work relationships really are. We don't expect for things always to be easy and blissful, and neither one of us is going to freak out and run out on the other because the going gets tough, you know?
Eh, I could go on and on, but you see where I'm going with this, right?
Weird Jen I think we should just get married too haha!
okay here goes nothing you ready? the first thing that jumps out at me is that you said you can't imagine divorce. this is what came to mind when reading you blog. the most important thing to remember is to ask yourself do i love this person or am i in love with this person? i bet if you asked both of your parents they woulda said they were still IN love. another thing, i don't even have to ask myself this about rob. you know how i walk around all googly and lovey about my son and i know i could never feel love stronger, well while i'm doing that i'm also looking at my husband thinking goddamn i'm in love with this man. no shit. every time i look at him that goes through my head. even when we are fighting i stop for a second and tell myself i'm not even worried becuase i know as mad as i am at him right now i still love the shit out of him.
this is my advice for married couples. if you ever stop and ask yourself how you really feel, if you can't immediatly say i'm so IN love with this man you have some thinking to do.
next. kids. getting a divorce with kids isn't the worst thing ever. fyi my parents are divorced. my whole life (even at 4) i was smart enough to know, my parents were better divorced then married. i NEVER once wanted them to get back together. i was absolutly thrilled my mom met kirk and fell in love again with the right person. i know my mom and dad loved each other, they just weren't in love any more it was an old habit that died hard. the thing you have to learn with kids is how to do it right. the first thing i always say is this if you have a healthy relationship to start, and you respect each other from day one there is no reason for a messy divorce. divorces get messy for very basic reasons, someone cheated, lied, stole or hurt the other person. you never see a messy divorce that came from two people saying you know what, this just isn't working anymore. when people are able to respect one another to talk about things before they run off and start fucking someone else, they can do things amicable. and they can explain it to children wisely. all of robs divorced friends have awful messy divorces. i feel terrible for those kids. because i am wise enough to know that no matter what, rob and i both have enough respect for each other to end it before we fucked up. obviously if he goes out and he sees another girl and thinks wow shes hot i wanna know her better, there is the first clue things aren't right and he should talk to me. chances are for them not to be right, i have to have some sort of clue and there will be a reason.
something i've also done very different then ALL of my friends and family is when i came in to this marriage i still had a sense of mine and yours. i can say with ease, if rob and i divorced, this bed is mine, that is his, he gets x tv and i get y tv, he's not getting my first house, he can have this one. and the reason for that, is so that no matter waht i always know that reasonably DIVORCE CAN ALWAYS HAPPEN. But to go into a marriage being so naive that your just going to make it work NO MATTER WHAT is awful. when you have that mind set you find yourself giving in, losing battles, taking the abuse of a bad relationship becuase IT HAS TO WORK. but it doesn't at all. if you go into something knowing this might fail, i bet you try a whole hell of a lot harder to keep things hot. another thing abotu going in saying we are going to stay married, is that even if you never get divorced, that doesn't meant that the romance can't fizzle. there comes a point where things go from fun and happy to routine and normal, and suddenly your married out of habit.
obviously the thing i take out of the story about your parents is that after all those years they were still bumpin uglies and they were comfortable and light hearted enough to just ocme right out and say it in front of the dr. also what i noticed, is your mom didnt say it in a defensive manor like OMG YES OF COURSE WE STILL HAVE SEX WE ARE MARRIED AND A HAPPY FUNCITONAL COUPLE AND THATS WAHT THEY DO, she said it like the most natural thing ever, hell yeah we're still boning you know.
there are always sublties. like i mentioned in my chedder blog the other day. rob and i keep shit funny and fresh. i mean really 6 years later and we are still laughing and joking about ball sweat.
one of the other things i appreciate about rob, is that i know, if we did get divorced he and i would remain friends, because despite everything we get along, we both like to laugh and have a good time. i dont know if you have ever read jenny mccarthys book Life Laughs. she talks about her divorce. her and her husband had a kid. and one of the things that stuck out to me the most was that they were super amicable, and AND every night he came to her house to say good night to her son. she got free schwag for his girlfriend, and they remained friends. one day i said something about divorce to rob and he said to me, you know, i oculdnt handle not seeing brandon every night. i would hope we could remain friends enough that i could come hang out with him at night and kiss him before bed. at that moment i saw me and this guy were on the same page. in the end we both realized our child was most important, and it was as though we made a secret pack right then and there to always remain amicable.
there are so many other ways divorces go wrong. the first in when the girl gets selfish and says i'm a take him for eveyr penny. you know what my thoughts ont hat are? why would i want to leave him dingy and deprived so when our child went over there, they had to see daddy in this small place and struggling.
so i gues what you and dave both need to realize, is taht nothing is forever, there are no guaruntees, but you two can chose to make the most out of the time you have together, and a make the best out of the time your apart. however i dont think either of you should go into it thinking we have to stay toghere because of vows. paper and rings are no reason to stay with someone.
i think you should re read jens post where she talks about erikc making that same mistake and saying he would stay with his wife no matter how unhappy he was. imagine poor erick 10 years down the road, having settled for a woman he knew wasn't right, and totally unhappy in his entire life. at this point both of them too used to how it is to do anything about it. had that happend jen and him wouldnt' have just gotten married and there would be no little baby.
i have always been a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. i think the fact that daves mom has had 4 divorces is her own fault. sounds like a woman who is afraid of being alone. i was alone for a full year before meeting rob. this means that if we divorced i know i could be alone again, you wouldn't see me running out to find the next babies daddy as fast as i could.
just because his mom was needy doesn't mean he is. dave sounds perfectly capable of being alone, and you know what, when you know you can be alone, and you still appreciate what you have it makes it that much more special!
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